CAMPAIGN INTERVIEW : Anti - nuclear
Dated: 14/9/08
1.Tell me a bit about yourself
I am 71 years old. 4 children. 4 grandchildren
Have lived in country Victoria for 28 years, (Murray River areas) but now in Melbourne.
Have degrees in education and nursing, and postgraduate diplomas in health information management, and in clinical coding, and some other bits of paper.
Have worked in various areas in education, community health, community education, and more recently in psychiatric and drug/alcohol nursing. Still working part-time in psychiatric area in a public hospital.
Now in Melbourne – obsessed with theatre – see everything I can, play tennis, enjoy all the arts stuff available in the city – and still get to go to outback places, when I can.
2. Why have you chosen to work in campaigning?
I have been interested in “alternative” views since childhood – at my Catholic convent boarding school I noticed very early that, in history lessons, our education “slid past” inconvenient issues such as the Inquisition, witch-burning. I started to think that the really important things were not talked about. “Nice” “ladylike” people did not discuss these important things, - we should be Private and Polite.
I just KNEW that the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was wrong.
Living in the Murray Valley, I learned and saw that we were killing the Murray River.
3. How long have your been campaigning for?
Decades
What campaign are you in at present?
The anti-nuclear campaign.
.
4. You say you are participating in the anti-nuclear campaign. Why?
As I have got older, I have seen the value of compromise, and conciliation – and the “realist-idealist” position. (As an example, I support the Rudd government’s present (Ross Garnaut) position on carbon emissions. I know it’s inadequate, but Rudd would soon be booted out if the position were any stronger, and we then might get an ignorant and climate-denialist government.)
In the context of compromise and conciliation, and “realism-idealism” – uranium mining and nuclear power look OK.
BUT – that doesn’t make them clean or safe.
The likes of me - old – no family responsibilities, obviously must retire soon – we are in a unique position to speak out unambiguously – and somebody has to. The nuclear issue is too serious for compromise or conciliation
5. What is your role in this campaign?
Thank God – She gave us the Internet. My alter ego, Christina Macpherson, runs my antinuclear website, a great ego trip, but it also spreads the message. The message is not so much about anti-nuclear as it is about “think for yourself”. In this conformist nation of Australia, we seem to have bought the idea that only the “experts” can understand complicated problems, and have valid opinions. Christina’s only qualifications are that she can read, write and vote, and that’s all that you need.
I write letters to newspapers, comments on news items
I participate in Friends of the Earth - Sustainable Energy and Anti-Nuclear Campaign – attend meetings, take part in activities.
I occasionally do a bit of public speaking – at events such as Sustainable Living.
I join in marches, rallies, attend public meetings, and sometimes heckle pro-nuclear speakers.
Can anyone get involved? How do they go about it?
Anyone can get involved. The first step is to decide what issue is important to you, and what level of involvement would work for you.
I think that each person should be guided by their own passion – the campaign can be about saving stray cats or anything.
It’s important to be realistic about your situation – about how much time, money, involvement you can put in, and then to set your limits. Campaigning can impinge on relationships, family life, and work considerations.
So – “going about it” is a personal matter. It could mean just writing letters to the local paper, or joining a small action group – such as cleaning up a local beachfront.
For the anti-nuclear movement
Well, everyone is writing their blogs now, and this is a great ego trip, if nothing else.
I think that a good move is to join a local activist group, such as Friends of the Earth, - going to their meetings and joining in their activities.
6. What sorts of things can one do in a campaign?
As a member of an anti-nuclear group, one can do letter-boxing, putting up posters (legally), writing submissions, lobbying politicians, writing letters to newspapers.
Educational stuff: - preparing materials for, and speaking to, school and community groups.
“Out there” stuff – a very important part of campaigning – the visible, irreverent, stuff – running street stalls, putting up posters (illegally), joining in marches and rallies, heckling pro-nuke speakers,
7. Who do you report to? What is the structure of your campaign group?
Antinuclear Australia is a complete farce – it is merely Christina’s website, but I do refer people on to useful groups.
Friends of the Earth – Sustainable Energy and Antinuclear Campaign. I report to the group. It is well run on traditional lines – with a committee structure.
8. Have you been involved in any other campaigns? If so, which ones?
Movement Against Uranium Mining (1970s and 80s)
ACTAC (Australian Children’s Television Action Committee (1970s)
Friends of the Earth – Murray River region (1980s)
9. What do you like about campaigning?
The freedom to say what I think
Most of my friends, my age group, in Melbourne, seem to be contented with supporting football teams, and going to interminable lunches. Campaigning is more fun.
I like knowing that, whatever the outcome, I tried.
As an educational example, especially for my children and grandchildren, I want them to know that you don’t have to be a bystander. You can do something
10. What don’t you like about campaigning?
Campaigning in itself is OK, though sometimes a bit tiring.
What I don’t like is the way that my friends and family regard me as a crank. They are quite happy for me to go to the theatre as often as I like, but complain about my going to activist meetings.
Sometimes I get a bit tired, and feel that I would just like to veg out.
11. Tell me about a time when your campaigning got results?
I believe that I was part of, among thousands of others, bringing about the ALP’s original policy (early 1970’s) against uranium mining
Early 1980’s, I was in court, charged with offences about graffiti – my case got a lot of publicity. I believe that I was one of the many who brought about the national pressure resulting in the French ceasing their nuclear testing in the Pacific.
This might sound like a vague connection, but I believe that the anti-nuclear movement contributed to the 2007 federal election result, especially due to our campaigning in Eastern coast electorates.
I thought that, as one among many thousands, I contributed via the website Antinuclearaustralia – which got a huge amount of visitors daily.
12. Tell me about a time when your campaigning didn’t get results?
As a member of the ALP’s environmental group, I saw our failure as the ALP changed their policy on uranium mining – to the “3 mines” policy.
13. Tell me exactly what steps you took to resolve that?
Left the ALP and joined the Greens
14. What was the basis for that decision?
Gave up on the ALP
15. Describe any campaigning situation or circumstance that made you upset, Why?
I was present in Essendon Town Hall, at an ALP conference attended by thousands. A vote was taken – show of hands – on whether the candidate should be the sitting senator Senator Jean Melzer (anti-nuclear) or the new contender Robert Ray, (pro-nuclear). A sea of hand went up, for the very popular Melzer, and about 3 hands went up for Ray. The executive chose Ray.
16. Have you ever been involved in a campaign that went wrong? If so, can you describe to me what happened?
Not quite sure of the definition of “wrong” here. But I’ll give my interpretation.
I was involved in the ACTAC campaign – aiming to get quality children’s television. It went really well for a while, and we got support from Channel GMV6 Goulburn Valley. Then the ACTAC group decided that they wanted to ban Dr Who. I had to leave the group: I saw it as getting precious, and heading towards censorship. (I loved Dr Who and forced my children to watch it)
17. What would you do if Australia banned people from campaigning?
Go to gaol.
18. How exactly did you do begin to be involved in campaigning?
I joined in “Ban the Bomb” marches with Melbourne University students. Them was the days when students had the time and the money for such extra-curricular stuff.
19. What year was it? Or how long have you been actively campaigning?
1960. For decades, on and off.
20. What sorts of people do you meet while campaigning?
Interesting people. Most campaigners that I meet are in their 30s, - teachers, social workers, professional workers. Also some hippie-ish alternative living people.
I meet a lot of earnest middle-aged pro-nuclear men, who buy the “expert” opinion of the likes of Ziggy Spinowski. After all, he does have a degree in Nuclear Physics, so he must know what is right. We exchange pleasant polite conversation, and agree to differ.
21. Talk about the part you played in campaigning?
Above all, I encourage people to do their own thinking.
Via the website, I spread news, and spread my corny cartoons and graphics.
I have done, and still do, the down to earth stuff – doing the minutes at meetings, letter-boxing, walking in marches, waving banners.
I make the odd poster, write up some educational materials, speak occasionally at meetings, chair them at times.
I have written submissions (e.g for Women’s Electoral Lobby), spoken at public meetings, debated pro-nuke speakers, heckled.
I have done, and still do, the communication and net-working stuff, referring people, connecting groups. Here’s where the website is useful.
I’ve written many letters to newspapers, comments on news, a few web articles.
22. Describe any PROBLEM, situation or task that caused difficulty?
A personal problem really. My family and friends don’t approve of my activities – such as going to meetings and marches. And they think my website is silly, and it probably is.
23. Talk about the ACTION you took to resolve it?
Not resolved.Repeated arguments.
24.Describe the successful RESULT using statistics or figures to illustrate the benefit to the campaign?
Oh dear! You really want statitsitics or figures. Well – all I can think of at this moment is the Antinuclearaustralia website unque visitor figures. They steadily moved up, over 2007, from average 56 per day in June 07 to average 220 per day in November 07 – and dropped off to average 114 per day immediately after Novemeber 24 (election day) Hardly proof of campaign success, but perhaps a one millionth part of the anti-nuclear contribution to the election result.
25. Is there a funny story you would like to share with us that you have experienced during your campaign years?
In 1980, I debated Dr. Leslie Kemeny, at a big public meeting in the National Theatre, organised by Women’s Electoral Lobby. I spoke quietly and very politely. Dr. Kemeny got angry, and at one point, he turned around, and pointed dramatically towards the back of the stage. He said “It’s not much use trying to explain things – with the great manipulator here…!” I looked back, and so did everyone, to see who was there. But there was no-one. Kemeny thought he was pointing at me, (I am quite small, and actually I was beside him)
26. What do you recommend to up and coming campaigners on how to begin their campaign career? Do you have any tips that will assist them in getting their message across?
Well, in the first place, it doesn’t have to be a “career”. One does what one can.
I recommend, as above, having a big think about what is your passion, and how much can you realistically give to it. What is your style, and what do you like doing? Try to find a way in which you can use your abilities - graphic art?, speaking?, organising? Writing? Direct action?
And take your relationship, family, work situation into account before embarking. Be able to say NO to campaign demmands.
.
Then – I still reckon that it’s a good idea to join a group, eat humble pie and take part in the meetings, the boredom, the ego trips, the stuff-ups, and the shit work that go with being part of it all.
Sometimes an individual achieves great things – Ralph Nader (car safety) – Lois Gibbs (combating chemical pollution), Helen Caldicott (stopping French atmospheric nuclear testing)..
But by and large, the “Power of One” is the power of thousands acting as one.
Tips in getting the message across? The message is always in the mind of the receiver – so – listening is the first step.
The more one learns about the nuclear issue (or any other complex problem), the better one is able to talk about it in simple, clear terms. The corporate pro-nuke lobby loves sophisticated technical jargon – it makes people give up thinking, and just leave the whole problem to the “experts”.
But there are some really well-informed people who can speak simply, e.g. Dr. Mark Diesendorf. Good to keep learning from them.
27. Would you like to add anything else?
Have some fun.
For example, parading around Ziggy, the huge white elephant with its green radioactive poo – that has been fun.
Thank you for your time, many people will appreciate this feedback.!
Interviewee Name: Noel Wauchope
Dated: 14/9/08
1.Tell me a bit about yourself
I am 71 years old. 4 children. 4 grandchildren
Have lived in country Victoria for 28 years, (Murray River areas) but now in Melbourne.
Have degrees in education and nursing, and postgraduate diplomas in health information management, and in clinical coding, and some other bits of paper.
Have worked in various areas in education, community health, community education, and more recently in psychiatric and drug/alcohol nursing. Still working part-time in psychiatric area in a public hospital.
Now in Melbourne – obsessed with theatre – see everything I can, play tennis, enjoy all the arts stuff available in the city – and still get to go to outback places, when I can.
2. Why have you chosen to work in campaigning?
I have been interested in “alternative” views since childhood – at my Catholic convent boarding school I noticed very early that, in history lessons, our education “slid past” inconvenient issues such as the Inquisition, witch-burning. I started to think that the really important things were not talked about. “Nice” “ladylike” people did not discuss these important things, - we should be Private and Polite.
I just KNEW that the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was wrong.
Living in the Murray Valley, I learned and saw that we were killing the Murray River.
3. How long have your been campaigning for?
Decades
What campaign are you in at present?
The anti-nuclear campaign.
.
4. You say you are participating in the anti-nuclear campaign. Why?
As I have got older, I have seen the value of compromise, and conciliation – and the “realist-idealist” position. (As an example, I support the Rudd government’s present (Ross Garnaut) position on carbon emissions. I know it’s inadequate, but Rudd would soon be booted out if the position were any stronger, and we then might get an ignorant and climate-denialist government.)
In the context of compromise and conciliation, and “realism-idealism” – uranium mining and nuclear power look OK.
BUT – that doesn’t make them clean or safe.
The likes of me - old – no family responsibilities, obviously must retire soon – we are in a unique position to speak out unambiguously – and somebody has to. The nuclear issue is too serious for compromise or conciliation
5. What is your role in this campaign?
Thank God – She gave us the Internet. My alter ego, Christina Macpherson, runs my antinuclear website, a great ego trip, but it also spreads the message. The message is not so much about anti-nuclear as it is about “think for yourself”. In this conformist nation of Australia, we seem to have bought the idea that only the “experts” can understand complicated problems, and have valid opinions. Christina’s only qualifications are that she can read, write and vote, and that’s all that you need.
I write letters to newspapers, comments on news items
I participate in Friends of the Earth - Sustainable Energy and Anti-Nuclear Campaign – attend meetings, take part in activities.
I occasionally do a bit of public speaking – at events such as Sustainable Living.
I join in marches, rallies, attend public meetings, and sometimes heckle pro-nuclear speakers.
Can anyone get involved? How do they go about it?
Anyone can get involved. The first step is to decide what issue is important to you, and what level of involvement would work for you.
I think that each person should be guided by their own passion – the campaign can be about saving stray cats or anything.
It’s important to be realistic about your situation – about how much time, money, involvement you can put in, and then to set your limits. Campaigning can impinge on relationships, family life, and work considerations.
So – “going about it” is a personal matter. It could mean just writing letters to the local paper, or joining a small action group – such as cleaning up a local beachfront.
For the anti-nuclear movement
Well, everyone is writing their blogs now, and this is a great ego trip, if nothing else.
I think that a good move is to join a local activist group, such as Friends of the Earth, - going to their meetings and joining in their activities.
6. What sorts of things can one do in a campaign?
As a member of an anti-nuclear group, one can do letter-boxing, putting up posters (legally), writing submissions, lobbying politicians, writing letters to newspapers.
Educational stuff: - preparing materials for, and speaking to, school and community groups.
“Out there” stuff – a very important part of campaigning – the visible, irreverent, stuff – running street stalls, putting up posters (illegally), joining in marches and rallies, heckling pro-nuke speakers,
7. Who do you report to? What is the structure of your campaign group?
Antinuclear Australia is a complete farce – it is merely Christina’s website, but I do refer people on to useful groups.
Friends of the Earth – Sustainable Energy and Antinuclear Campaign. I report to the group. It is well run on traditional lines – with a committee structure.
8. Have you been involved in any other campaigns? If so, which ones?
Movement Against Uranium Mining (1970s and 80s)
ACTAC (Australian Children’s Television Action Committee (1970s)
Friends of the Earth – Murray River region (1980s)
9. What do you like about campaigning?
The freedom to say what I think
Most of my friends, my age group, in Melbourne, seem to be contented with supporting football teams, and going to interminable lunches. Campaigning is more fun.
I like knowing that, whatever the outcome, I tried.
As an educational example, especially for my children and grandchildren, I want them to know that you don’t have to be a bystander. You can do something
10. What don’t you like about campaigning?
Campaigning in itself is OK, though sometimes a bit tiring.
What I don’t like is the way that my friends and family regard me as a crank. They are quite happy for me to go to the theatre as often as I like, but complain about my going to activist meetings.
Sometimes I get a bit tired, and feel that I would just like to veg out.
11. Tell me about a time when your campaigning got results?
I believe that I was part of, among thousands of others, bringing about the ALP’s original policy (early 1970’s) against uranium mining
Early 1980’s, I was in court, charged with offences about graffiti – my case got a lot of publicity. I believe that I was one of the many who brought about the national pressure resulting in the French ceasing their nuclear testing in the Pacific.
This might sound like a vague connection, but I believe that the anti-nuclear movement contributed to the 2007 federal election result, especially due to our campaigning in Eastern coast electorates.
I thought that, as one among many thousands, I contributed via the website Antinuclearaustralia – which got a huge amount of visitors daily.
12. Tell me about a time when your campaigning didn’t get results?
As a member of the ALP’s environmental group, I saw our failure as the ALP changed their policy on uranium mining – to the “3 mines” policy.
13. Tell me exactly what steps you took to resolve that?
Left the ALP and joined the Greens
14. What was the basis for that decision?
Gave up on the ALP
15. Describe any campaigning situation or circumstance that made you upset, Why?
I was present in Essendon Town Hall, at an ALP conference attended by thousands. A vote was taken – show of hands – on whether the candidate should be the sitting senator Senator Jean Melzer (anti-nuclear) or the new contender Robert Ray, (pro-nuclear). A sea of hand went up, for the very popular Melzer, and about 3 hands went up for Ray. The executive chose Ray.
16. Have you ever been involved in a campaign that went wrong? If so, can you describe to me what happened?
Not quite sure of the definition of “wrong” here. But I’ll give my interpretation.
I was involved in the ACTAC campaign – aiming to get quality children’s television. It went really well for a while, and we got support from Channel GMV6 Goulburn Valley. Then the ACTAC group decided that they wanted to ban Dr Who. I had to leave the group: I saw it as getting precious, and heading towards censorship. (I loved Dr Who and forced my children to watch it)
17. What would you do if Australia banned people from campaigning?
Go to gaol.
18. How exactly did you do begin to be involved in campaigning?
I joined in “Ban the Bomb” marches with Melbourne University students. Them was the days when students had the time and the money for such extra-curricular stuff.
19. What year was it? Or how long have you been actively campaigning?
1960. For decades, on and off.
20. What sorts of people do you meet while campaigning?
Interesting people. Most campaigners that I meet are in their 30s, - teachers, social workers, professional workers. Also some hippie-ish alternative living people.
I meet a lot of earnest middle-aged pro-nuclear men, who buy the “expert” opinion of the likes of Ziggy Spinowski. After all, he does have a degree in Nuclear Physics, so he must know what is right. We exchange pleasant polite conversation, and agree to differ.
21. Talk about the part you played in campaigning?
Above all, I encourage people to do their own thinking.
Via the website, I spread news, and spread my corny cartoons and graphics.
I have done, and still do, the down to earth stuff – doing the minutes at meetings, letter-boxing, walking in marches, waving banners.
I make the odd poster, write up some educational materials, speak occasionally at meetings, chair them at times.
I have written submissions (e.g for Women’s Electoral Lobby), spoken at public meetings, debated pro-nuke speakers, heckled.
I have done, and still do, the communication and net-working stuff, referring people, connecting groups. Here’s where the website is useful.
I’ve written many letters to newspapers, comments on news, a few web articles.
22. Describe any PROBLEM, situation or task that caused difficulty?
A personal problem really. My family and friends don’t approve of my activities – such as going to meetings and marches. And they think my website is silly, and it probably is.
23. Talk about the ACTION you took to resolve it?
Not resolved.Repeated arguments.
24.Describe the successful RESULT using statistics or figures to illustrate the benefit to the campaign?
Oh dear! You really want statitsitics or figures. Well – all I can think of at this moment is the Antinuclearaustralia website unque visitor figures. They steadily moved up, over 2007, from average 56 per day in June 07 to average 220 per day in November 07 – and dropped off to average 114 per day immediately after Novemeber 24 (election day) Hardly proof of campaign success, but perhaps a one millionth part of the anti-nuclear contribution to the election result.
25. Is there a funny story you would like to share with us that you have experienced during your campaign years?
In 1980, I debated Dr. Leslie Kemeny, at a big public meeting in the National Theatre, organised by Women’s Electoral Lobby. I spoke quietly and very politely. Dr. Kemeny got angry, and at one point, he turned around, and pointed dramatically towards the back of the stage. He said “It’s not much use trying to explain things – with the great manipulator here…!” I looked back, and so did everyone, to see who was there. But there was no-one. Kemeny thought he was pointing at me, (I am quite small, and actually I was beside him)
26. What do you recommend to up and coming campaigners on how to begin their campaign career? Do you have any tips that will assist them in getting their message across?
Well, in the first place, it doesn’t have to be a “career”. One does what one can.
I recommend, as above, having a big think about what is your passion, and how much can you realistically give to it. What is your style, and what do you like doing? Try to find a way in which you can use your abilities - graphic art?, speaking?, organising? Writing? Direct action?
And take your relationship, family, work situation into account before embarking. Be able to say NO to campaign demmands.
.
Then – I still reckon that it’s a good idea to join a group, eat humble pie and take part in the meetings, the boredom, the ego trips, the stuff-ups, and the shit work that go with being part of it all.
Sometimes an individual achieves great things – Ralph Nader (car safety) – Lois Gibbs (combating chemical pollution), Helen Caldicott (stopping French atmospheric nuclear testing)..
But by and large, the “Power of One” is the power of thousands acting as one.
Tips in getting the message across? The message is always in the mind of the receiver – so – listening is the first step.
The more one learns about the nuclear issue (or any other complex problem), the better one is able to talk about it in simple, clear terms. The corporate pro-nuke lobby loves sophisticated technical jargon – it makes people give up thinking, and just leave the whole problem to the “experts”.
But there are some really well-informed people who can speak simply, e.g. Dr. Mark Diesendorf. Good to keep learning from them.
27. Would you like to add anything else?
Have some fun.
For example, parading around Ziggy, the huge white elephant with its green radioactive poo – that has been fun.
Thank you for your time, many people will appreciate this feedback.!
Interviewee Name: Noel Wauchope
For more details check out the campaign site below!
INTERNET SITE:
http://www.antinuclear.net/index.html
INTERNET SITE:
http://www.antinuclear.net/index.html
Interview campaign: Antinuclear Australia/ Friends of the Earth Sustainable Energy and Anti-Nuclear Campaign
Interviewee date: 14/9/08
Interview started at: 12 midday
Interview ended at: 2 pm
Signed (if can) electronically): dunno how to do it. Noel Wauchope
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